I am considering a purchase as a student although it is really expensive.

What are your major criticisms of the framework laptop?

E.g.

- I have heard that it discharges battery even while powered off (a very serious issue IMO).

Also, I will be using win10/11 and fedora most likely. So any Linux-related issues (e.g. hardware support) I would really like to know.

Thanks for any ideas.

  • rayddit519@alien.topB
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    10 months ago

    Mostly my personal points, but also some I do not personally care about. And only criticisms

    • While FW goes further in Linux Support than most manufacturers, I would not say they are making sacrifices to Windows functionality in order to increase Linux compatibility or open-source-ness of the device (I like it that way, users using mainly Linux may not)
    • The modularity of the outputs and modularity in general also brings with it negatives. In terms of power consumption, performance, compatibility (additional adapters involved for the outputs. While it should not be a problem, it still makes things more complex and by its nature prevents certain stuff, like the functionality of native HDMI outputs, DP++, power efficient USB-A outputs.) Early problems with power efficiency have been improved. It remains an open question for me how much of the remaining difference versus competitors is simply result of a not very specialized product (can run as desktop for example), the modularity or design experience. For example my device seems to wake up from Modern Standby so much more frequently than other Intel devices I have seen, causing higher sleep power consumption than seems necessary)
    • a particular problem of the system design: device does not power up from hibernation if lid is opened (unlike when power is plugged in). Kind of needed when you lift the keyboard for disassembly, but far less convenient on Modern Standby devices that automatically switch from suspend to hibernation dynamically.
    • fan grumbles at lowest speeds (you basically hear the motor in a really quiet room) and fan control has an audible step at that speeds that just pisses me off. Staying at higher speeds would be better. Less of a problem the more power efficient the CPU is. Intel CPUs seem to output enough heat in power saving modes and on desktop to necessitate running the fan at least on lowest speeds. So it is rarely completely off.
    • The particular way the outputs are modular takes up a lot of space that limits the space the laptop has for other components
    • still playing catchup with other manufacturers features: (small points, I would not have expected in early devices or on launch, but that could be available as upgrades)
      • HDR screen
      • auto-brightness of keyboard backlight instead of having it to do manually, auto-timeout so it won’t stay on forever for example when watching a video
      • BIOS supervisor PW does not apply to boot-order changes / boot-menu unlike EVERY other device I have owned. I’d consider this a security issue
      • no option to disable automatic booting of any BootROM behind USB4/TB
      • no ReBar support
    • either unwillingness or inability to provide software updates (firmware, BIOS) in any acceptable amount of time. At least for older products. Includes some issues officially announced as security issues that are outstanding for almost a year now. They say they are improving and not silently dropping support for older generations. That improvement can not yet be observed and plans have not been detailed enough for me to trust in that improvement before I see it. What they stated makes it seem like they new they did not have the resources for doing software support for more than 1 device if at all. Who knows if the current plan will actually add enough resources to support all generations still being sold (which are still all of them)
    • Remains to be seen, how much of the stated goal of producing longer lasting devices can be achieved, if there is no way for software upgrades over time, when the hardware is technically capable of it, without replacing the entire mainboard, the most expensive part, with a newer version. Their board design shows FW trying to think of a lot of things for future possibilities (non-notebook use on limited power, touchscreen support etc). But I think a longer lasting device can only reach its full potential with ongoing software support including some software feature additions like mentioned above. While I think they have a good record for making revised hardware available, fixing flaws / disadvantages compared to competitors, like the hinges, speakers, more rigid lid for what I think are fair prices, they have not done any of that for the BIOS/software. For example the simply nice-to-have GUI is tied to the 13th gen FW board and newer, requiring an upgrade of the entire board (just an easy example not sth. I care about. I’d much more care about the software points mentioned above). They have stated, that they don’t want to ship software feature upgrades. That, together with the questionable ability to even ship security updates, makes me estimate how long I am willing to stay on one FW device significantly lower than I initially hoped for.