I’m considering a Framework 13 for my second, travel laptop (it’ll be my first non-Thinkpad laptop since the 1990s) but still have some nagging doubts and am curious if others have grappled with any of them. I generally keep laptops for 2-3 years before selling my old one and buying a new one so none of my laptops have ever ended up in landfill by my hand, at least.
First doubt is about the whole Framework business model thing, not least because the company is private and thus a bit of a mystery in terms of financing, burn rate, longevity etc. Basically, if I buy a Framework laptop now, will the company still be around in 2-3 years when I’d consider a CPU update and still supporting current models?
Second is whether I want to buy a laptop that’s such a basic clamshell design when all other manufacturers are constantly bringing some interesting new design options to the table. Sure, it’s fine now, but in 2-3 years will I want a 2-in-1 or a smaller footprint or different screen ratio etc.? Looking back at my Thinkpad purchases, I did stick with 14" T-series for quite a while (T20 onwards), but those evolved in terms of size/shape, and since I shook my T-series addiction I’ve tried all sorts of different sizes and shapes (currently typing this on a P1 Gen 4).
And finally there’s the price, which TBH is on the high side even with me bringing my own RAM, using an older Gen3 SSD I have, using a 60W charger I already have etc. Even the new Main Boards/CPUs are pretty darn expensive if you want anything higher end. This is especially pertinent with BF coming up when all the major manufacturers will no doubt be offering big discounts on current models (some already are).
It seems to be the USP of Framework is the lower e-waste thing because otherwise it’s just another mid-range 13" laptop in a crowded field. TBH I’d be more impressed if Framework offered to take back replaced components for recycling, otherwise upgrading stuff just generates its own potential e-waste, albeit much less than binning a whole laptop.
Ultimately I’ll probably buy a Framework 13 – curiosity about new toys and memories of rummaging around in the internals of Thinkpads of Yore are just too strong to overcome! But I’m still curious about other folks’ motivations.
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First doubt is… will the company still be around in 2-3 years when I’d consider a CPU update and still supporting current models?
no one knows for sure, but worst case you ditch it and buy a new laptop, just like literally any other brand.
Second is whether I want to buy a laptop that’s such a basic clamshell design… in 2-3 years will I want a 2-in-1 or a smaller footprint or different screen ratio etc.?
for me personally, tall screen + clamshell is ideal, I’ve never wanted anything else. but ultimately, same as point 1, if you decide you want something else you can just get a different laptop, same as any other laptop.
so for both 1 and 2, your absolute worst case is the same as every other laptop on the market which doesn’t seem like an issue to me
These are all risks we take. If you can’t afford to take them, don’t. If you don’t personally see it as worth it, don’t. It’s a very personal decision and is very much based on your feelings and wallet.
I’m a computer geek and have always repaired my own laptops and drag out their lifespan as far as possible. I’ve replaced just about everything on regular laptops and know how much it sucks to find parts and do the repairs.
Within a couple months I had to replace my main board under warranty and was able to replace it in under 10 minutes. That felt so damned good! :) Very happy with my purchase.
Somewhat disillusioned with the quality (or lack thereof) with some of the ThinkPads we’ve had recently. I’ll freely admit fence-sitting for the last couple of years, and I hat-tip those who bought products from this embryonic company as I wasn’t sure if they’d be a flash-in-the-pan or not. They’re still here a few years later.
Well, the AMD processor option seemed to be a nice performance / endurance balance and whilst I could’ve just plumped for a T14, the FW13 seemed like a nice option now.
I’ve always played “extend the lifespan” with my tech and hence my previously-favoured X270 got upgraded batteries, more storage, WiFi 6, LTE upgrades, more memory and so on. With the Framework, having a platform that actively encourages you to fiddle with it was appealing rather than one that merely allows it (and even then can cause issues at times).
So far, it has exceeded my expectations on every level. I daily drive it in place of a couple of different ThinkPads and I can happily say I don’t miss them at all for any reason other than nostalgia. The X270 has just had its external battery pulled and the internal one set to disconnect and shoved on a shelf. I honestly never thought that would happen, but here we are.
Framework don’t have the economies of scale that Lenovo do, hence they’re more expensive than a similar-spec Lenovo. Is it worth it? For my use case, and assuming they stick around for the foreseeable? Sure :-)
I got a yoga series and that was because I told myself I wanted to draw on it. I loved that it came with a rechargeable pen and a touch screen. I have had it for years now and I can’t remember the last time I actually drew on it. Turns out I never use the touch screen and I never use the pen. So I’m only looking at “traditional” form factors now and I love the concept of the framework. Will they stick around? Well they sure aren’t if nobody buys what they are selling so I’m doing my part and voting for repairability with my money.
i liked the idea of it. i was used a macbook air for years. i still like apple OS and prefer it over windows. but their new laptops are just missing too many features for the sake of making it thiner and thiner. its missing standard usb ports and they only do usb c now. its also missing the mag safe charger and the SD card slot.
i don’t need a light or thin laptop. i just need something i can pick up and move from the couch to the bed. i also like being able to choose what i have available on my laptop. i don’t think standard usb is going away for a couple more years, yet apple has removed them completely and replaced them with usb c which in my opinion was a mistake.
I wanted a cheap gaming laptop that I can upgrade and play older games on
I have a Lenovo t14 AMD G3 from work and bought a FW 13 AMD. Lenovo has a white list on the second pcie slot. It’s fan is annoying. The keyboard layout of the t14 is not good for me. The screen of the FW is better. It boots weird and slow compared to the FW. And if I upgrade the FW I can reuse the Mainboard for something else. It isn’t cheap, but has a soul.
I bought one because I’ve watched Apple slowly chip away at my ability to upgrade and repair my Macbooks. First it was the RAM, next the SSD, and now I can’t replace my keyboard because it is riveted to the case. My only solution for the keyboard is to replace the entire topcase, or painstakingly replace the keyboard itself with another keyboard that is susceptible to the same defect(butterfly keys).
I’m sick of that crap and I’ll be using Framework going forward.
Do it
I bought it because I am an advocate of right to repair. There are some other reasons, but that’s the main reason I bought it. Because no other modern thin & light is built around repairability to the degree framework is.
Honestly I like framework because it doesn’t have any manufacturer bloat. I hate and despise all that, and while some will say just reinstall windows (or install Linux) I like windows for fun (Linux for work!) and most laptops need weird windows drivers with a load of crap included you cannot avoid
Framework has no such issues. It’s like getting an Android pixel phone from Google, rather than a Samsung. I just like stock.
Speaking of which, is why the Microsoft surface line would be my second choice and biggest competitor to framework for me.
Out the two I weighed pros and cons. Both are stock windows, nicely made. Surface line is tight and integrated and framework is open and upgradable, which was the path I preferred slightly in the end.
A great thing about desktop PCs is you can config exactly how you like and avoid manufacturers crapware - and frameworks are that philosophy for laptops, which I think is great.
If you prefer touchscreens or smaller shells I’d say Microsoft surface is the line to get, otherwise, get a framework. For me - no other laptops are considered for me personally.
Maybe I’m weird!
One other thing I like about framework - when you upgrade to a new board, your old board becomes a standalone mini pc. You can use that for r/homelab or r/selfhosted projects which can be really fun and repurposes your old hardware in a more useful way
I didn’t even need one, but bought one to support the company because I believe in their methods with regards to repair/upgrades. 11th gen i7 upgraded to 12th gen. Top spec for both.
And now I’m waiting on a loaded FW16. The fw16 is less value per dollar for sure compared to others. But I like being able to customize and/or upgrade when needed.
I bought their board to build a screenless server type system with 11th gen, idle power usage 15watts!!! for an i7 its insane, so use cases vary. I got framework because all 1185g7 pc’s mini etc were from China, and I am not fully ok with that. But framework is so impressive. I am a huge fan now. I know I do not fall in your use case but there is a lot more to it.
My problem with trying to justify this purchase is I can get a similarly specced Lenovo 7940HS right now for half the price of the framework that would ship in Q2 2024. The later the shipment the cheaper the framework ought to be, but no… By the time the framework ships, the Lenovo would likely cost a third or even a quarter instead. So it’s like I can buy three or four Lenovos for the price of one framework. I don’t see how framework is supposed to not only save e-waste but also save me money over time.