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“8gb is comparable to 16gb on Windows”
yeah until the swap memory kills the SSD
Every article: Imagine 8gb “In a few years time”.
The base pro from 10 years ago had 8gb. 10 YEARS! We are way past “in a few years” already.
My 2011 15” pro came with 8GB. 12 years later and nothing has changed.
Meanwhile the new iPhones have 8GB ram.
nothing has changed
that MacBook had upgradable RAM, so really things have changed for the worse
The thing that nobody seems to admit in this thread however, is that every Mac sold today has hundreds of megabytes of RAM basically. The sold state drives serve as RAM albeit at a slower rate, that won’t be noticed much at all by the average entry level home computer owner. In the past we always had this virtual RAM, going back for 20 years or more, but it used to be very very slow as it used spinning hard drives. SSD virtual RAM was a game changer.
Probably the reason why sales on the Mac are down significantly.
When People cant afford it anymore, this makes sense
It’s only a problem if Tim thinks it’s a problem. Unfortunately he’s more concerned with profits and shareholders than he is about customers.
Apple is not for pros. Apple is not for business. Apple is not for creatives. Apple is for average consumers who want a nice looking computer. Our studio switched to PC
There is no problem. Is just capitalism greed at its finest.
A general Apple user won’t notice a difference between 8 and 32Gb of memory. More click bait.
It is noticeable.
Safari refresh tabs more often
Apple of the past would’ve just priced the device at $2000+ (16/512) with no option to go lower. A different set of people would then complain that they only needed the performance of a MBA but wanted the screen of the MBP, which is what this is.
That’d actually would be better, because then your boss wouldn’t be able to buy you a “Pro” machine that’s complete shit.
Meanwhile even android phones have 12-16GB LPDDR5X RAM. I know it’s not apples to apples comparison but at least I have apple in my comparison lol
the problem isn’t whether 8 GB are enough for the average joe. the problem is Apple are charging 1599$ for an 8 GB laptop. even for that price, 16 GB are really pushing it — especially with only 512 GB of storage space.
so yes, the problem is Apple are being greedy.
The main problem is that it’s not upgradable, if it was upgradable you can give me 2GB on the base model and I wouldn’t care, RAM is cheap.
The situation now is you spend 1599$, then in a few years if you want more RAM/Storage you need to buy a new laptop again because it’s impossible to upgrade.
Well, I despise Apple, because in addition to being greedy, they’re destroying this planet with waste (planned obsolescence, proprietary cable types, soldered everything…) …and all for short term gains.
That being said, I have nowhere else to go, because Apple is the only company that can give me the product that I need. Intel, and Microsoft Windows are a clown show, and have been since forever (I have a Windows desktop too… had many in the past). I’m a software dev.
If I had a viable option, I’d drop Apple in an instant. Actually, I have dropped the iPhone and iPad already (call it courage), just waiting for a great (quiet, low power and high performing) laptop that will run something similar to OSX, …and unfortunately, I don’t think that Microsoft is ever going to be able to deliver that. I wish Linux could, but not until there’s one “consumer” distro, …and that will also never happen.
They’ll keep doing it as long as people keep buying it. Why charge less when people are always willing to pay more?
While there is some truth in your statement, when you look at the TCO of an Apple Device, it lasts a lot longer than any other device on the market, for this I’m personally happy to pay more and again only my opinion. Try getting even 3 years out of anything that runs Windows.
The R&D Apple are sinking into making their own processors and software run more efficiently is years ahead of others especially when it comes to battery life.
Along with using iCloud, your Mac will manage your storage and offload to the cloud. I think the hardware software combo is on point and whilst seen as expensive, is parity to the same offering from other tier 1 vendors.
Just priced the 14” MacBook Pro with 18Gb of Memory and 512SSD it’s still cheaper than the MS studio laptop with the same specs. But the M3 CPU will kill the 13th Gen useless intel i7 chips. Mac was $80 cheaper than the MS offering.
You’d be lucky to get 4 hours out of the Studio battery and all your memory will be gone in edge/chrome tabs anyway.
For 1599, I would expect at least 16Gb/1Tb
For $1599, it should be 32GB RAM, 2TB storage.
For $1599, it should be 64GB RAM, 4TB storage
Am I doing it right?
DOUBLE IT!!!
For $1599, I should get 500 lbs. of repetitive, manufactured, internet outrage!
How will I feed my kids without a daily dose of outrage?
My only real skill is being outraged about some phone or computer spec, regardless of the real world utility or user experience, so I’ll be out of work if I don’t work up a good lather of outrage!
What outrage do we have planned for tomorrow? I need to eat!
It’s a completely different product but FFS the $300 Xbox Series S has 10GB of RAM. It’s unacceptable in such an expensive product.
Minimum of 24GB/1TB if no expansion.
I’m going to provide some context – I may be downvoted.
The problem isn’t that the cost of the ram individually, it’s the cost of the entire SKU at scale. Which is what people forget.
The reason you can buy 64gb sticks cheap is for a few reasons – it’s a singular component that has to compete in a single category and also the volume at which it is manufactured at makes this price possible.
Each Apple configuration is mostly unique in the sense that each board design is its own because components are soldered in.
They have a handful of LPDDR5x capacities and mix-and-match them as needed.
Like 1 8GB chip for a M3 with 8GB of RAM, 2 8GB chips for a M3 with 16GB of RAM, 2 12GB chips for a M3 with 24GB of RAM, 3 6GB chips for a M3 Pro with 18GB of RAM, 3 12GB chips for a M3 Pro with 36GB of RAM, etc., etc. with the M3s using 1 or 2 channel RAM, the M3 Pros using 3 channel RAM and the M3 Maxes using 4 channel RAM and the top spec RAM configuration being 4 32GB (128GB total) modules.
In fact the M3 with the 8GB configuration literally has an empty RAM slot on the motherboard they didn’t populate. They likely have three motherboard configurations - dual channel, three channel and four channel motherboards with a M3, M3 Pro or M3 Max respectively.
Yeah my argument isn’t “no 8GB laptops” (though let’s be honest, at $1,100 for even a MacBook Air they COULD do 16 without messing up their margins).
The argument is: no $1,600 MacBook PRO laptops with 8GB.
Max Tech’s video here does a great job of showing just how insufficient 8GB really truly is. With NO difference but RAM, even with some pretty basic everyday workloads, the 16GB version is VASTLY faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmWPd7uEYEY
And they get away with it because their average consumer thinks they need a $2k laptop to write essays or browse twitter so they aren’t even sweating it with 8gb
They don’t see that as a problem…
Thats why I went for a $1200 M1 Pro fuck the M3
What does that matter? The rest of the laptop is top of the line. Best display, best brightness, best battery, best build, super fast CPU. What’s a comparable laptop that’s cheaper?
Tim “And we think you’re gonna buy it anyway!”
Sadly he was true.
Source: I bought a M2 MBP last year base spec because I couldn’t justify the extra costs. Put the money towards a T7 SSD
Really?
I once shared a similar opinion and also suggesting a more premium screen option and also suggested that perhaps Apple are not as innovative as they used to be but got bombarded with downvotes and aggressiveness by Apple fans and apologists saying things like, “if you cannot afford premium (for the record, I have several expensive Apple devices), then get a crappy Samsung Galaxy or something with its poor battery life and lack of tablet-optimized apps while we enjoy premium quality.”
It was then that further cemented for me that Apple (as well as many other corporations and even people) likely has a crazy amount of loud, arrogant, condescending, rude (but loyal) fans on Reddit (or the internet in general) who will defend them until the end and these are the people who encourage Apple to be complacent and perhaps even greedy.
The funny thing is that a LOT of those that say things like that, have an iPhone SE and a 10 year old MacBook and talk as if those that got a 1800 dollar Galaxy Fold are poor.
Obviously there’s nothing wrong with those. Just saying it’s a weird ass mindset to pretend your cheaper and significantly older product is better because it has some brand and not another.
Apple really did amazingly well with their marketing. They managed to make some people believe that a literal consumer product, that sells into the hundreds of millions each year, is some sort of ultra premium item that’s unattainable and brings some prestige above the rest and it generates some inexplicable weird fetish.
I’m an Apple fan lol, some zealots exist but there’s lots of paid shills too.
I have never understood the people who feel the need to white knight some mega corp.
Neither Samsung nor Apple are gonna sleep with you, bro.
That’s something that honestly has refreshed me browsing r/Leatherman. Yeah, Leatherman fanboys will rant against Gerber and SOG tools all day, but they’re also mad shitting on Leatherman when they misstep.
Apple also astroturfs reddit quite badly (just like microsoft does, and certain film stars).
Lenovo, HP and Dell all sell variants of their ‘professional’ business laptops with 8GB of RAM in the same price range as the base MBP.
Apple offering a wider range of configuration options makes the lineup MORE Pro, not less because business/enterprise customers WANT that flexibility.
The faux outrage at Apple - and only at Apple - is more than a little bit tiresome.
like what? shows me 2023 14" in business laptop from them that costs 1599$ but only gives 8GB of RAM.
Just go to their business line and filter by 8gb of ram. Lenovo shows 26 in their Thinkpad line.
A specific model for $1600:
Watch this. People who think 8gb ram macs will last long are dreaming in the coming age of AI integration.
An extra 128gb for $100 is a complete ripoff
The problem isn’t Apple being greedy, they are a profit making company……that’s what they are supposed to do. the REAL problem is we the consumers rewarding their greed by continuously buying the products regardless of how they shaft us. That’s the real problem. Just because you can afford a premium device doesn’t mean you are not being shafted….it just means you can afford to be shafted!
If we all stopped buying Apple products for 3yrs…… oh they will make changes….they are a business after all.
This is why closed ecosystems can backfire greatly. There is no other MacOS device you can buy with reasonable built in storage.
The problem isn’t Apple being greedy, they are a profit making company……that’s what they are supposed to do.
Sorry, I have to object to that defence. It’s absurd nonsense in the highest degree. Many companies are commercial. Banks are commercial entities, but what separates them from those lenders that charge 1000% (e.g. loan sharks) is a level of unscrupulousness that is beyond the pale. Just as companies extorting their customers is beyond the pale. Being a commercial company does not justify rampant rapaciousness.
Basically, what you are saying is that the highly knowledgeable accounting and marketing teams at Apple know exactly what they can charge for their computers and upgrades, and after 30 years they are really really good at knowing what consumers will pay. They must know better than anyone here on Reddit as none of us currently manage the largest market cap company in the world…
so yes, the problem is Apple are being greedy.
Apple does not have a monopoly on laptops. You can always buy an intel laptop with windows or linux if Apple’s value proposition does not work for you. E.g. one of my work laptops is a Dell with 32GB of RAM.
A 512GB SSD costs $29 and 16GB LPDDR5 costs $20, and that’s fucking RETAIL.
Those specs should be base in the Air, with a max of 32GB/1TB in the Airs, and the Pros should start at 64GB/2TB for their base.
30% profit margin on a 1600 laptop is $480 profit per machine.
They can and should upgrade the base, hell iPhone base starts at 6GBs of RAM…
It’d be like $450 profit per base MacBook instead of $480, it’s just nickle and diming their customers.
It’s simple. Apple knows that overpricing their RAM will frustrate a bunch of people, but not enough to deter a large enough volume of customers. This pricing scheme is probably more profitable overall than them being more competitive with their memory prices.
“The best price is often the one in which users complain but still pay”
That golden point where you can squeeze customers of all their cash right before they decide they had enough and switch brands
I’m thinking my next phone is going to be Samsung. This may be my last iPhone. Lack of cross-compatibility is really irritating me.
Yeah well they priced me out, I have to buy a cheaper model now. I inadvertently waited two years for either a new chip or a 16gb base, and I’m still confused by what to do.
well forcing your customers into one sku is a great way to save money but turning around and penalizing them for wanting more is truly brilliant because it worked. Apple in effect has made all custom configurations a premium and people actually went for it.
Consider this, if you upgrade the top M2 Pro mini to 32g memory and top processor option it is the same price as the based Studio with M2 Max which already has 32g memory. Why would anyone but the mini at that point? They will though
Apple marketing in a nutshell
Not that Apple will care, but they’ve all but guaranteed that my next laptop will be a Framework laptop. Just need them to start using chips that’ll let it run silently 90% of the time.
It deterred me, I was going to buy an M2 MacBook Air directly from Apple but the insane cost to upgrade the SSD and RAM led me to buy a used MacBook Pro M1 instead. Even though I still bought a MacBook, none of the money went to them. Spending over 1k on any computer with 8gb of non upgradable memory is ridiculous
Only competition would be Windows finally having arm chips that give similar power/battery ratio like the M chips.
I would wager to guess that mass majority of MacBook users don’t actually know the amount of ram they need. The ones that do need more computing power actually know how much they need and will pay for the Apple price unfortunately. What people see as an insult and a problem is nothing more than a solution for Apple. The computer will function fine for the majority of the people that just want a new MacBook to stream their Netflix or use for work/school.
Turns out the world’s most profitable company makes decisions that boost its bottom line, who woulda thunk?
Sure sucks for us consumers, but the rest of the laptop is compelling enough people will still pony up for extra RAM rather than leaving the ecosystem for an inferior x86 Windows laptop. And Apple knows it.
Wow, never thought I’d actually agree with an article like this. Yup, it’s stupid. Yup, you pay too much for too little.
It’s been like this since the creation of Apple. More people get the base model and if you underspec the base model, the time you upgrade is a lot less.
So you make more money over a period of time.
Apple is the exclusive provider of both the software and hardware. They have a significant amount of power, and it’s important they use it responsibly. I would hope Mac users would be more vocal about expressing their dissatisfaction when we feel taken advantage of instead of acting as enablers. We have nowhere else to go as switching platforms is a massive burden. It wasn’t too long ago that Apple were on the verge of bankruptcy, and it seems they may have forgotten that period.
Being vocal does nothing, voting with your wallet does. Apple customers consistently vote for price increases with their wallet and they are consistently willing to pay whatever the cost is.
I’ve refrained from upgrading my Intel MacBook Pro, and the M3 Max seems like the perfect opportunity. However, I struggle to overlook the constraints Apple imposes on their devices. It feels like they have little regard for their customers.
Could always return, we are on the cusp of a new computing paradigm, if Apple doesn’t make it, then they’ll be in the poop.