LLMs are already used for military purposes. Plus there’s a ton of potential other things like A.I. controlled vehicles and missiles. A missile or rocket controlled by an A.I. would be heavily resistive to electronic warfare.
Bruh are you actually serious? How do you think a naturally unstable fighter (meaning you can’t take your hands off the stick lick a regular plane and it will self correct) is able to be flown? Fly by wire and sensor fusion/then generating that information on screen, while being connected to all other f35s/some lesser fighters (and ai controlled side drone wingmen) takes a huge amount of processing power. Imagine the f35s see through aircraft helmet? You’re right, it probably runs on a 1080ti
Supercomputing has a lot of military applications behind the scenes as well - simulation (especially for stuff like nukes that can’t easily be tested due to test ban treaties), sigint, encryption cracking, and obviously AI has a lot of potential uses as well.
You’re obviously too young to remember when the PS3 was banned from being imported into certain countries. The USA had a large Beowolf cluster of them that they used as it was a very cheap way to create a super computer at the time.
Man it’s absolutely wild how the CELL processor went from the next big thing to vanishing everywhere in the space of 5 years.
Fun fact about the PS3: They originally had the intention to use a second CELL processor for dedicated graphics, until they realised it was too costly and also didn’t work too well as a graphics chip. This is the reason why they shoehorned a modified Nvidia 6700 in there. This is speculation, but it’s also probably why they went with dedicated memory for the CPU and the GPU rather than unified memory like the Xbox 360 did.
Even before that there was the “Iraqi super computer” myth where it was believed Saddam was hoarding thousands of PS2s to circumvent sanctions on computer hardware since it could be imported as a toy for children.
Strap a dozen PS2s together and you have a missile guidance system or something to that effect.
It gained a lot of traction in the US and I’m pretty sure Sony released a statement absolving themselves of any wrong doings after the consoles were purchased.
I don’t know why you got bombed but people seem to heavily disregard the fact that China is upcoming for a reason.
They are super populated meaning more manpower for lower wages, in addition, they have a very strict education system and the student also take it very seriously too. So now add the two together and you will see that they are actually progressing at a rate that’s compounded in comparison to the Western hemisphere.
Provided that they’re currently still behind, this however is not set in stone.
I won’t try to guess and say they will overtake the states any time soon but the chances of this happening is far greater than people would like to believe.
Non-technical sub coupled with anti-China mindset. The thing about RISC-V is that its success doesn’t even depend on China, it’s open source hardware and a bunch of other nations and many western companies are also invested in it, making its success more or less a question of timeline.
Illegal immigration out of China into the U.S. is at a record high.
富二代 are also buying real estate in Japan and elsewhere as the RMB continues to depreciate against major world currencies.
These will not prevent breakthroughs from occurring but there are major headwinds for the Chinese, especially when many of their better-off citizens are looking to leave.
I agree with you that a lot of the big players are trying to exit China. It’s a real thing that’s been occurring and even more so now with the recent demands for what was suppose to be water under the bridge, by the CCP.
In terms of the new and upcoming geniuses and/or proteges though, that may not be the case, yet.
Well just compare China to the States for a second.
China’s population exceeds 1 billion, where as the USA is closer to 300-400 million.
Now let’s go back to exactly what you mentioned, enforcement of obedience. This strategy may not be the most ethical but you cannot discredit the fact that it’s been keeping these 1 billion plus citizens in check.
Now let’s compare that with the USA who only has about 1/4th of China’s population. A lot of states have currently succumbed drastic increase in crime rates and murders. China barely has these kind of events anymore.
With that said though, both sides have their ups and downs but my main point is that a lot of people don’t even know about the living conditions of Canadians, their own neighbours. This can only mean they are also ignorant of China (outside of propaganda).
The irony here is that blocking China from importing certain chips will do little except pressure them even more to develop their own chip manufacturing industry, which is already growing fast
It won’t, ASML can’t export newer technology to China. If China can make its own lithography equipment for chips, then it’s all over. They haven’t yet. Plus ASML is the only in its field.
They won’t grow that fast due to their tech companies pretty much only hiring Chinese citizens to work for them. They are also paramilitary at this point since the companies are owned by the government.
The only way they can progress is going to be stealing tech and info from other countries. They mostly do this by sending Chinese military operatives to other countries as students or tech workers.
The reason Nato countries are so much faster at developing tech is because they import brain power. You go to a tech company in the US and you will see researchers from every country working on projects.
Their chip capacity hasn’t grown cause they’ve always been able to buy chips. They can’t anymore, so the incentive to develop that tech is higher than ever. And they have plenty of manpower
Yes. They are so far behind cause they’ve always been able to just buy chips for far less money than making them. Now we have taken away their ability to buy chips, and they have no choice but to learn to make them or get left behind. They have made it extremely clear that they have chosen the former.
That’s fine. Developing a domestic chip manufacturing base is expensive and time consuming, so the US will have a major competitive advantage for the next few years. China may also be incapable of matching US and Taiwanese chip quality, which imposes additional costs. The goal isn’t “make sure China never builds a computer,” it’s just “make sure Chinese computers are more expensive so everyone buys American.”
That will still never work though, Chinese manufacturing blows American out of the water. They will surpass us very soon unless America fully blocks the import of their chips, just like we did with their electric cars, which are vastly superior to ours.
I mean, even if you are right that Chinese manufacturing is superior, which is improbable, it still isn’t great for China. If it was cheaper and faster for them to develop domestic manufacturing, then it would have happened already. So while they build up, they will be non competitive with other manufacturers, even if they do have a strong product in a few years. Which again, is unlikely.
You should compare legit European/American ICs with their Chinese clones which they fakely label as the other ICs, for some things people don’t notice, but something a lot of people do notice is they’re extraordinarily shit
China would be a dead state if they tried. The problem would be that the Chinese military is actually too weak to invade Taiwan. They could send a LOT of boats, yes. And the antiship missiles we’ve fed to Taiwan, and those they have produced would decimate that fleet and kill hundreds of thousands of Chinese soldiers. They’d be dealing with revolution at home, have a crippled navy, and be cut off from the international trade system as every approaching vessel is targetd from hundreds of miles away.
Also, all those mega structures? The massive infrastructure expansion, the pipelines to Russia? Yeah those are nice targets. And all perfectly valid to destroy in a defensive war against an aggressor.
Yes, Taiwan can reach Beijing with missiles powerful enough to level skyscrapers and factories alike.
Taiwans Defence ministers talk about surviving more than two weeks and you talk about winning. Can’t tell if you’ve fallen for DPP brainrot or Chiang Kai Sheks retake the mainland propaganda.
Dunno, I recall reading some detailed report about a “gentleman’s agreement” the US military has with Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing companies, where if China is on the verge of taking the island, we would tactically bomb all foundries immediately. In return, the US will foot the bill to rebuild their companies manufacturing infrastructure elsewhere immediately after.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. The technology is not available elsewhere. Even if it took a full year to get production back, the technology and institutional knowledge is still a decade or two ahead. They literally can’t compete, that’s why a block is effective in the first place.
Then there’s the CHIPS Act which included, among other things, a ton of money invested into Intel to basically re-shore US competitiveness in semiconductors. It’s clearly a strategic vulnerability for so much of the worldwide capacity to be concentrated in this little island way closer to global rivals than in domestic territory.
There are not. Chip manufacturing is extraordinarily delicate. You need incredibly precise machinery to operate in a vacuum with highly skilled workers. All three of these things react poorly to bombs.
If a Chinese capture of Taiwan is strongly opposed by just the Taiwanese, not even the Americans, then it will take just as long to reactivate TSMC as it would to build a new Chinese manufacturing base from scratch. If not longer, given risks of insurgents, UXO, and devastated infrastructure.
Chips are used in warfare and they don’t want China to get that.
Chips in warfare are shitty embedded processors that handle real time sensors, not 500W heaters like the 4090.
They just don’t want China to be competitive in the AI market. It has happened before with the Marshall Plan and it will happen in the future.
LLMs are already used for military purposes. Plus there’s a ton of potential other things like A.I. controlled vehicles and missiles. A missile or rocket controlled by an A.I. would be heavily resistive to electronic warfare.
Bruh are you actually serious? How do you think a naturally unstable fighter (meaning you can’t take your hands off the stick lick a regular plane and it will self correct) is able to be flown? Fly by wire and sensor fusion/then generating that information on screen, while being connected to all other f35s/some lesser fighters (and ai controlled side drone wingmen) takes a huge amount of processing power. Imagine the f35s see through aircraft helmet? You’re right, it probably runs on a 1080ti
Supercomputing has a lot of military applications behind the scenes as well - simulation (especially for stuff like nukes that can’t easily be tested due to test ban treaties), sigint, encryption cracking, and obviously AI has a lot of potential uses as well.
AI is how warfare will be fought in the future. Developing AI requires processing power.
Correct. And that’s good. We don’t want China to win the race for AI, because to win AI is to win the world.
You’re obviously too young to remember when the PS3 was banned from being imported into certain countries. The USA had a large Beowolf cluster of them that they used as it was a very cheap way to create a super computer at the time.
https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html
Man it’s absolutely wild how the CELL processor went from the next big thing to vanishing everywhere in the space of 5 years.
Fun fact about the PS3: They originally had the intention to use a second CELL processor for dedicated graphics, until they realised it was too costly and also didn’t work too well as a graphics chip. This is the reason why they shoehorned a modified Nvidia 6700 in there. This is speculation, but it’s also probably why they went with dedicated memory for the CPU and the GPU rather than unified memory like the Xbox 360 did.
Even before that there was the “Iraqi super computer” myth where it was believed Saddam was hoarding thousands of PS2s to circumvent sanctions on computer hardware since it could be imported as a toy for children.
Strap a dozen PS2s together and you have a missile guidance system or something to that effect.
It gained a lot of traction in the US and I’m pretty sure Sony released a statement absolving themselves of any wrong doings after the consoles were purchased.
Wild time.
And the 4090 is one of the best AI chips out period
And with the way RISC-V is shaping up, China could arguable have state of the art embedded processors within 5 years anyway.
I don’t know why you got bombed but people seem to heavily disregard the fact that China is upcoming for a reason.
They are super populated meaning more manpower for lower wages, in addition, they have a very strict education system and the student also take it very seriously too. So now add the two together and you will see that they are actually progressing at a rate that’s compounded in comparison to the Western hemisphere.
Provided that they’re currently still behind, this however is not set in stone.
I won’t try to guess and say they will overtake the states any time soon but the chances of this happening is far greater than people would like to believe.
Non-technical sub coupled with anti-China mindset. The thing about RISC-V is that its success doesn’t even depend on China, it’s open source hardware and a bunch of other nations and many western companies are also invested in it, making its success more or less a question of timeline.
China’s population is currently shrinking
1.4 billion vs the US 332 million… That’s a lot of genius to be tapped vs the US.
I mean, yes, that’s true. However:
Illegal immigration out of China into the U.S. is at a record high.
富二代 are also buying real estate in Japan and elsewhere as the RMB continues to depreciate against major world currencies.
These will not prevent breakthroughs from occurring but there are major headwinds for the Chinese, especially when many of their better-off citizens are looking to leave.
I agree with you that a lot of the big players are trying to exit China. It’s a real thing that’s been occurring and even more so now with the recent demands for what was suppose to be water under the bridge, by the CCP.
In terms of the new and upcoming geniuses and/or proteges though, that may not be the case, yet.
In a country where logic and sense are actively discouraged? And obedience encouraged? Unlikely.
Well just compare China to the States for a second.
China’s population exceeds 1 billion, where as the USA is closer to 300-400 million.
Now let’s go back to exactly what you mentioned, enforcement of obedience. This strategy may not be the most ethical but you cannot discredit the fact that it’s been keeping these 1 billion plus citizens in check.
Now let’s compare that with the USA who only has about 1/4th of China’s population. A lot of states have currently succumbed drastic increase in crime rates and murders. China barely has these kind of events anymore.
With that said though, both sides have their ups and downs but my main point is that a lot of people don’t even know about the living conditions of Canadians, their own neighbours. This can only mean they are also ignorant of China (outside of propaganda).
lol
lmao even
What a glorious shitpost!
No one is using 4090s for warfare. The AD102 is being used for it’s AI capabilities.
But aren’t the chips made in Taiwan? Don’t imagine it’s too hard for China to get their hands on them
The irony here is that blocking China from importing certain chips will do little except pressure them even more to develop their own chip manufacturing industry, which is already growing fast
It buys time
So it’s better to give people we don’t trust what they haven’t got, because otherwise they’ll have to work out how to make them?
You’re demonstrating why neoliberal commercial thinking isn’t what we need to build a safer and better future.
It won’t, ASML can’t export newer technology to China. If China can make its own lithography equipment for chips, then it’s all over. They haven’t yet. Plus ASML is the only in its field.
They won’t grow that fast due to their tech companies pretty much only hiring Chinese citizens to work for them. They are also paramilitary at this point since the companies are owned by the government.
The only way they can progress is going to be stealing tech and info from other countries. They mostly do this by sending Chinese military operatives to other countries as students or tech workers.
The reason Nato countries are so much faster at developing tech is because they import brain power. You go to a tech company in the US and you will see researchers from every country working on projects.
Their chip capacity hasn’t grown cause they’ve always been able to buy chips. They can’t anymore, so the incentive to develop that tech is higher than ever. And they have plenty of manpower
Have you seen the domestic chinese chips?For an example,the Moore Threads GPUs are jokes,worse than Pascal.
Cutting China off will buy us a lot of time.
is it though? they’re kind of inept, their biggest successes with SMIC had disastrous yields
They are still years away from working 7nm. There is no irony only your misunderstanding.
Yes. They are so far behind cause they’ve always been able to just buy chips for far less money than making them. Now we have taken away their ability to buy chips, and they have no choice but to learn to make them or get left behind. They have made it extremely clear that they have chosen the former.
That’s fine. Developing a domestic chip manufacturing base is expensive and time consuming, so the US will have a major competitive advantage for the next few years. China may also be incapable of matching US and Taiwanese chip quality, which imposes additional costs. The goal isn’t “make sure China never builds a computer,” it’s just “make sure Chinese computers are more expensive so everyone buys American.”
That will still never work though, Chinese manufacturing blows American out of the water. They will surpass us very soon unless America fully blocks the import of their chips, just like we did with their electric cars, which are vastly superior to ours.
I mean, even if you are right that Chinese manufacturing is superior, which is improbable, it still isn’t great for China. If it was cheaper and faster for them to develop domestic manufacturing, then it would have happened already. So while they build up, they will be non competitive with other manufacturers, even if they do have a strong product in a few years. Which again, is unlikely.
You should compare legit European/American ICs with their Chinese clones which they fakely label as the other ICs, for some things people don’t notice, but something a lot of people do notice is they’re extraordinarily shit
Why do people just go on the internet and lie
America bad right? Fuck America
China’s ambitions in re-acquiring Taiwan aren’t just political. There is also potentially huge economic gains there.
China would be a dead state if they tried. The problem would be that the Chinese military is actually too weak to invade Taiwan. They could send a LOT of boats, yes. And the antiship missiles we’ve fed to Taiwan, and those they have produced would decimate that fleet and kill hundreds of thousands of Chinese soldiers. They’d be dealing with revolution at home, have a crippled navy, and be cut off from the international trade system as every approaching vessel is targetd from hundreds of miles away.
Also, all those mega structures? The massive infrastructure expansion, the pipelines to Russia? Yeah those are nice targets. And all perfectly valid to destroy in a defensive war against an aggressor.
Yes, Taiwan can reach Beijing with missiles powerful enough to level skyscrapers and factories alike.
Taiwans Defence ministers talk about surviving more than two weeks and you talk about winning. Can’t tell if you’ve fallen for DPP brainrot or Chiang Kai Sheks retake the mainland propaganda.
Dunno, I recall reading some detailed report about a “gentleman’s agreement” the US military has with Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing companies, where if China is on the verge of taking the island, we would tactically bomb all foundries immediately. In return, the US will foot the bill to rebuild their companies manufacturing infrastructure elsewhere immediately after.
Oh ready, and what happened with the people?
And you think losing TSMC isn’t a benefit to China because China also have equal access?
How is Arizona going? Well? Production in 3 months? 6 months?
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. The technology is not available elsewhere. Even if it took a full year to get production back, the technology and institutional knowledge is still a decade or two ahead. They literally can’t compete, that’s why a block is effective in the first place.
Then there’s the CHIPS Act which included, among other things, a ton of money invested into Intel to basically re-shore US competitiveness in semiconductors. It’s clearly a strategic vulnerability for so much of the worldwide capacity to be concentrated in this little island way closer to global rivals than in domestic territory.
There are not. Chip manufacturing is extraordinarily delicate. You need incredibly precise machinery to operate in a vacuum with highly skilled workers. All three of these things react poorly to bombs.
If a Chinese capture of Taiwan is strongly opposed by just the Taiwanese, not even the Americans, then it will take just as long to reactivate TSMC as it would to build a new Chinese manufacturing base from scratch. If not longer, given risks of insurgents, UXO, and devastated infrastructure.
How. The moment they try and get close to a what is essentially an impossible landfall. The foundries to boom. It’s part of the defense strategy.
And losing TSMC will have little impact to China in the coming years because the US already cut them off.
China has nothing to lose so why let you enjoy your AI chips?
Not exactly.
The goal is to prevent China from obtaining capabilities within machine learning and AI.