So first of all, before the downvotes start, let me just say that I don’t really agree with this opinion article. That being said, it certainly highlights that Nvidia is very successful in projecting the image that it is advancing graphics technology into the future, while AMD is sort of hobbling along, unable to keep up.
Personally, I don’t care all that much about raytracing. Mostly because I play mostly games where raytracing isn’t even a thing, but even in the games that I play that have raytracting I am still not that awed by it. Just adding this so people don’t think that I share the author’s mindset.
I’m also not convinced that AMD’s relatively low market share is all because of it not being able to keep up. The last year AMD has made some seriously odd choices where they set the initial price for some of their GPU’s way too high, only to lower them to a more acceptable level a few months later. It seems that they just can’t help from shooting themselves in the foot. If they really wanted market share, they could have done things a lot better with the line-up that they have.
That being said, the kind of discourse like in this article probably isn’t what AMD would like to see. So the question is, is there anything AMD can do about this? Or do you think AMD should just ignore it? It definitely seems like Nvidia is winning the PR fight in the mainstream tech media.
I don’t care for ray tracing either but path tracing on the other hand I think it’s important and represents the future of 3D gaming graphics and right now AMD GPUs can’t do Path tracing at all
AMD isn’t the ‘cheaper’ options anymore they’re almost pricing matching Nvidia for performance while offering less features and worse power efficiency
for example I’m looking to build a new budget pc and i was looking at RX 7600 but over here it cost only 20 or 30 euro less than the RTX 4060, which makes no sense because the 4060 has slightly better raster performance way better ray tracing capabilities better reconstruction tech (DLSS) and and almost half the power consumption so buying AMD makes no sense
The later path tracing updates to classic games Serious Sam and Doom had the 6900XT close to 3070 performance. Now that intel is also in the fray and are said to have better RT hardware, if not on par with nvidia, they can also be used as a benchmark reference. The RTXDI updates to Portal and Cyberpunk have quite poor numbers on AMD and also on intel.
Arc770 goes from being ~50% faster than 2060 to 2060 being 25% faster when you change from RT Ultra to Overdrive.
I benched 6800XT vs 4090 in the old PT updated games and heavy RT games like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk, and 4090 was close to 3.5x of 6800XT. The problem with AMD this gen is that they lost the clockspeed crown they had last gen and so they have to compete against 4080 in raster while being beaten in RT, instead of 6900XT matching 3070 in RT while outpacing it handily in raster.
It sucks looking at these benchmarks and see how far less features, customisations, official tools, 3rd-party utilities, and support Radeon has compared to GeForce. Overall, I’m glad sticking with GeForce aside from lower default IQ and CQ, of course.
Your comment will not hold up for even one day. Alan Wake 2 releases tomorrow with pathracing and from the looks of it any 4000 series GPU except for maybe the 4060 will handle pathtracing.
About me - my first PC had an ATI Rage Pro. I would continue to buy every single release from ATI/AMD starting with the 7000 VE ending with the R9 290X CFX and due to noise level would not last beyond the return window where I would just get a used 780 Ti to hold me over. Then supply issues made it so I couldn’t get a Fury XT during my window to buy would lead me to buy a 980 Ti Starting with Vega 64 vs 1080 Ti would make it that I wouldn’t return to AMD as they’d always under deliver in my performance bracket.
The issue with AMD is something that has followed them for years. It isn’t something that is easy to discuss because it’s subjective in severity and exposure.
AMD tried the low ball attempt, sure it worked for a bit but it didn’t sway things in their favor. NV would just price match them +10% and continue to deliver. (HD4K/HD5K series, HD6K to a degree, but AMD adjusted prices that that hurt them more than helped, HD 6870 being a HD 5770 replacement with a price bump meant both HD 5770/5870 user’s didn’t see improvements and then HD 6970 being slower than HD 5970 made people ask why shift the names at all).
AMD tried to produce beefy hardware with the whole GCN era. And it didn’t help them that the continued issue that goes continuously ignored by a major populace of the posters here held back their performance at launch. Tied to the not reading the room AMD had another “Bulldozer” moment where the hardware was too advanced and barely anyone took advantage of it. By the time the industry caught up those advancements were standard features and NV out optimized AMD in them. Throw in the first crypto bubble, poor marketing (Overclocker’s dream anyone), bad yields on highly desired products and QA issues (HBM surface levels too low/high to the GPU core, pump whine) and don’t forget Vega/Frontier FE (copying NV, really AMD be original) leading to a product most consumers weren’t even sure who it was aimed at. GCN being probably the last most forward thinking uarch didn’t win AMD anything it’s constant blunder with that which is not to be mentioned continued to hold it back.
Now we’re in RDNA era and the 800lb guerilla in the corner is still sitting there, but everyone was too blinded by AMD finally putting out a mid-range product worth it’s they ignored AMD almost doubling the asking price for the Polaris10 replacement. Slap all the Vega20 buyers in the face, and still struggled with the guerilla leading to a lot of lost mind share with solutions akin to ship of theseus. It brought a lot of new eyes to the AMD GPU ecosystem and a lot of those users got burned.
RDNA2 being perhaps the best launch since HD4K/5K in my eyes, but Crypto returned and ruined what could have been AMD’s return to form. The guerilla for once while not dead was tamed, products competed almost 1:1 to NV minus a few features we can just make comparatives to tessellation during the HD5K-era (ie not deal breakers). With the crypto issue, combined with AMD spreading themselves thin and the boom in CPU/Servers for them they allocated far more resources to capitalize in that sector leading to the other markets starving.
RDNA3 saw the guerilla break free, AMD still high on their own farts ignoring the feature set parity where tessellation comparatives can no longer be made as ray tracing on NV side just destroys AMD in scenarios that make ray tracing worth using. The absence of an inflated market put a spot light on the guerilla running rampant, the feature inequality, and the overall mind share of AMD-GPU.
And now to stop hiding the guerilla - drivers support continue to be an issue. You’ll have hundreds of post saying “drivers are fine” in threads about Anti-Lag+ banning players. In threads of system lock up due to Factory Reset options (which is still disabled). In threads talking about regressive VR performance. In threads about high idle usage. In threads about MSFT updates bricking/breaking/resetting configurations.
You’ll have users deflect saying “it happens on NV side too” as if that some how absolve AMD’s responsibility to it’s users. And in the end all it does is erode confidence that AMD can compete where it matters most to any user - reliability. Because as good as AMD’s hardware is (as attested by consoles, Steam deck) if a normal every day user can’t get it to function to their level of satisfaction, why bother?
RDNA3 undid pretty much any good will that RDNA2 garnered. RDNA4 is already being rumored to be a hard era for AMD. Confidence is very low anyone who is objective on the topic of dGPUs.
I’d love for AMD to return to the hay days of ATI, shoot I’d settle for GCN redux. At least the “fine wine” meme meant something. But AMD’s attempts of “we got x-feature at home” isn’t cutting it anymore, and they have got to invest in their hardware feature set like NV does. I’m tired of counter arguments of “I don’t like/use ray tracing” or “use Linux” to users posting actual grievances. All this tell those users is “just got buy Nvidia” with or without the insult of being a mindless sheep.
AMD has a lot of work to do, but it’s supports seem to be more than happy with what AMD gives them. So why improve.
I got banned from CS2 for a week because of AMD, I’m never taking a risk on Radeon again unless they’re 50% cheaper than Nvidia. There’s simply no need to, the morons at Radeon stole a week of gaming from me, that’s worth a lot more than the piddly $50 I saved going for a 7800XT instead of a 4070.
So first of all, before the downvotes start, let me just say that I don’t really agree with this opinion article. That being said, it certainly highlights that Nvidia is very successful in projecting the image that it is advancing graphics technology into the future, while AMD is sort of hobbling along, unable to keep up.
Personally, I don’t care all that much about raytracing. Mostly because I play mostly games where raytracing isn’t even a thing, but even in the games that I play that have raytracting I am still not that awed by it. Just adding this so people don’t think that I share the author’s mindset.
I’m also not convinced that AMD’s relatively low market share is all because of it not being able to keep up. The last year AMD has made some seriously odd choices where they set the initial price for some of their GPU’s way too high, only to lower them to a more acceptable level a few months later. It seems that they just can’t help from shooting themselves in the foot. If they really wanted market share, they could have done things a lot better with the line-up that they have.
That being said, the kind of discourse like in this article probably isn’t what AMD would like to see. So the question is, is there anything AMD can do about this? Or do you think AMD should just ignore it? It definitely seems like Nvidia is winning the PR fight in the mainstream tech media.
I don’t care for ray tracing either but path tracing on the other hand I think it’s important and represents the future of 3D gaming graphics and right now AMD GPUs can’t do Path tracing at all
AMD isn’t the ‘cheaper’ options anymore they’re almost pricing matching Nvidia for performance while offering less features and worse power efficiency
for example I’m looking to build a new budget pc and i was looking at RX 7600 but over here it cost only 20 or 30 euro less than the RTX 4060, which makes no sense because the 4060 has slightly better raster performance way better ray tracing capabilities better reconstruction tech (DLSS) and and almost half the power consumption so buying AMD makes no sense
The later path tracing updates to classic games Serious Sam and Doom had the 6900XT close to 3070 performance. Now that intel is also in the fray and are said to have better RT hardware, if not on par with nvidia, they can also be used as a benchmark reference. The RTXDI updates to Portal and Cyberpunk have quite poor numbers on AMD and also on intel.
Arc770 goes from being ~50% faster than 2060 to 2060 being 25% faster when you change from RT Ultra to Overdrive.
https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Serious-Sam-The-First-Encounter-Spiel-32399/Specials/SeSam-Ray-Traced-Benchmark-Test-1396778/2/#a1
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4060-gaming-x/34.html
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/cyberpunk-2077-rt-overdrive-path-tracing-full-path-tracing-fully-unnecessary
I benched 6800XT vs 4090 in the old PT updated games and heavy RT games like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk, and 4090 was close to 3.5x of 6800XT. The problem with AMD this gen is that they lost the clockspeed crown they had last gen and so they have to compete against 4080 in raster while being beaten in RT, instead of 6900XT matching 3070 in RT while outpacing it handily in raster.
It sucks looking at these benchmarks and see how far less features, customisations, official tools, 3rd-party utilities, and support Radeon has compared to GeForce. Overall, I’m glad sticking with GeForce aside from lower default IQ and CQ, of course.
I agree in that I think the hardware difference isn’t that big as people are making it out to be, and AMD won’t catch up on software.
They do have some advantages, eyefinity for which I bought 6800XT and now that driver level FG.
The only card that can is a 4090 and it can do it in exactly one game.
None of the cards you are buying right now will do path tracing on future games. None.
Just look at Nividia 2000 series. They do “raytracing”. For all the good it will do you.
My 4070 Ti can do path tracing just fine.
Your 4070 Ti on path tracing
Oh, I forgot to mention, I play at 1080p, not 4K. Path tracing at 4K for a 4070 Ti is unreasonable anyway; the 4070 Ti is primarily a 1440p card.
*2
Alan Wake 2 comes out tomorrow and according to reviews, it looks phenomenal in PT.
Your comment will not hold up for even one day. Alan Wake 2 releases tomorrow with pathracing and from the looks of it any 4000 series GPU except for maybe the 4060 will handle pathtracing.
About me - my first PC had an ATI Rage Pro. I would continue to buy every single release from ATI/AMD starting with the 7000 VE ending with the R9 290X CFX and due to noise level would not last beyond the return window where I would just get a used 780 Ti to hold me over. Then supply issues made it so I couldn’t get a Fury XT during my window to buy would lead me to buy a 980 Ti Starting with Vega 64 vs 1080 Ti would make it that I wouldn’t return to AMD as they’d always under deliver in my performance bracket.
The issue with AMD is something that has followed them for years. It isn’t something that is easy to discuss because it’s subjective in severity and exposure.
AMD tried the low ball attempt, sure it worked for a bit but it didn’t sway things in their favor. NV would just price match them +10% and continue to deliver. (HD4K/HD5K series, HD6K to a degree, but AMD adjusted prices that that hurt them more than helped, HD 6870 being a HD 5770 replacement with a price bump meant both HD 5770/5870 user’s didn’t see improvements and then HD 6970 being slower than HD 5970 made people ask why shift the names at all).
AMD tried to produce beefy hardware with the whole GCN era. And it didn’t help them that the continued issue that goes continuously ignored by a major populace of the posters here held back their performance at launch. Tied to the not reading the room AMD had another “Bulldozer” moment where the hardware was too advanced and barely anyone took advantage of it. By the time the industry caught up those advancements were standard features and NV out optimized AMD in them. Throw in the first crypto bubble, poor marketing (Overclocker’s dream anyone), bad yields on highly desired products and QA issues (HBM surface levels too low/high to the GPU core, pump whine) and don’t forget Vega/Frontier FE (copying NV, really AMD be original) leading to a product most consumers weren’t even sure who it was aimed at. GCN being probably the last most forward thinking uarch didn’t win AMD anything it’s constant blunder with that which is not to be mentioned continued to hold it back.
Now we’re in RDNA era and the 800lb guerilla in the corner is still sitting there, but everyone was too blinded by AMD finally putting out a mid-range product worth it’s they ignored AMD almost doubling the asking price for the Polaris10 replacement. Slap all the Vega20 buyers in the face, and still struggled with the guerilla leading to a lot of lost mind share with solutions akin to ship of theseus. It brought a lot of new eyes to the AMD GPU ecosystem and a lot of those users got burned.
RDNA2 being perhaps the best launch since HD4K/5K in my eyes, but Crypto returned and ruined what could have been AMD’s return to form. The guerilla for once while not dead was tamed, products competed almost 1:1 to NV minus a few features we can just make comparatives to tessellation during the HD5K-era (ie not deal breakers). With the crypto issue, combined with AMD spreading themselves thin and the boom in CPU/Servers for them they allocated far more resources to capitalize in that sector leading to the other markets starving.
RDNA3 saw the guerilla break free, AMD still high on their own farts ignoring the feature set parity where tessellation comparatives can no longer be made as ray tracing on NV side just destroys AMD in scenarios that make ray tracing worth using. The absence of an inflated market put a spot light on the guerilla running rampant, the feature inequality, and the overall mind share of AMD-GPU.
And now to stop hiding the guerilla - drivers support continue to be an issue. You’ll have hundreds of post saying “drivers are fine” in threads about Anti-Lag+ banning players. In threads of system lock up due to Factory Reset options (which is still disabled). In threads talking about regressive VR performance. In threads about high idle usage. In threads about MSFT updates bricking/breaking/resetting configurations.
You’ll have users deflect saying “it happens on NV side too” as if that some how absolve AMD’s responsibility to it’s users. And in the end all it does is erode confidence that AMD can compete where it matters most to any user - reliability. Because as good as AMD’s hardware is (as attested by consoles, Steam deck) if a normal every day user can’t get it to function to their level of satisfaction, why bother?
RDNA3 undid pretty much any good will that RDNA2 garnered. RDNA4 is already being rumored to be a hard era for AMD. Confidence is very low anyone who is objective on the topic of dGPUs.
I’d love for AMD to return to the hay days of ATI, shoot I’d settle for GCN redux. At least the “fine wine” meme meant something. But AMD’s attempts of “we got x-feature at home” isn’t cutting it anymore, and they have got to invest in their hardware feature set like NV does. I’m tired of counter arguments of “I don’t like/use ray tracing” or “use Linux” to users posting actual grievances. All this tell those users is “just got buy Nvidia” with or without the insult of being a mindless sheep.
AMD has a lot of work to do, but it’s supports seem to be more than happy with what AMD gives them. So why improve.
Guerrilla or gorrila?
Haha. Gorilla. Thanks for that correction. Fixed it.
El commandante has been bulking up.
I got banned from CS2 for a week because of AMD, I’m never taking a risk on Radeon again unless they’re 50% cheaper than Nvidia. There’s simply no need to, the morons at Radeon stole a week of gaming from me, that’s worth a lot more than the piddly $50 I saved going for a 7800XT instead of a 4070.
How about HW and/or driver defects burning up your card? This has happened to nVidia multiple times now
Just send it in for RMA and pop another GPU in lol. If I get banned there’s literally nothing I can reasonably do about it.